"The Gays and Dating Apps (A Conversation)" Transcript

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Apr 05, 2023 First published.

Dec 07, 2023 Privated post-callout.

May 8, 2024Channel deleted

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hello everyone and welcome to gays Behaving Badly the show where we talk about stuff the Pete booty judge doesn't want us to talk about my name is James I'm Nick so what are we talking about today today we are talking about dating apps dating apps dating apps or as most gays refer to them hook-up apps yeah uh because that's not often dates anymore yeah who does date anymore dating is dead yeah who dates anymore I mean that like that said like dating like the old style of dating sounds really intimidating and like very obtuse like because like our hope at this point would be the over 30 singles nights like yeah that that's where like go to the center the the singles nights at the synagogue hopefully find a nice Jewish boyfriend no hopefully had a nice Jewish grandmother [Laughter] to find you a nice Jewish boyfriend um I love like but yeah dating sounds like would be so much easier with Community Values like that in that kind of very close-knit community and you know like we we always hear stuff especially from like the Elder gays which we would actually love to have some Elder gays on this show to talk about the different things they're gonna put up you on the show if we call them Elder caves well you know like gays like over 50 over 60 people who people who were on the dating scene before yeah before everything went digital yeah and you know people who you know kind of for whom being gay like a big part of the being gay identity was going to gay bars yeah because I think our generation has really lost that as not just as a dating thing but as a way to meet people I don't know how to make gay friends oh yeah like we were talking about in the car like how do we just make friends and yeah I don't know how to make friends do you know can you tell me it seems like the answer might actually be dating apps some of them yeah and that's that's what I want to talk about is the changing space of that yeah and so like that that's that's something that's like I I do want to 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around would have saved me a lot of grief when using apps like Grindr how so explain that well you know Grinders because I I would have been that person giving out the code to other people like I I the code to other people yeah like the app code to other people so they could control it oh I mean they are yeah that would have been that that would have been interesting um but Grindr for me is like a Time sync and it always has been because being someone of the larger body variety uh it's very rare that I come across and this is not just Grindr this is universally it's very rare that I come across people who find me physically attractive and then when I do they might which is you know like I said it's a Time sync it takes a lot of effort to find those people then you might end up with someone who's incredibly pushy or someone who's incredibly far away this is like it's been my lot in life I've had a bit of a glow up since I since we met actually in my early 20s like I I didn't really style my hair I didn't really pay attention to what I put on my body my body um and I just was not very you know interesting you know visually so that led to a lot of very visually I went to a lot of people just not being interested in me um the Ikea showroom of homosexuality I guess so I mean like even more basic than Ikea like I just did not give any craps about what I looked like I don't know there's some Ikea showrooms that are pretty nice exactly so um like that lets me like be having sexual experiences with people that were basic but I was basically desperate for it yeah and so whoever whoever you could get who whoever you could get in bed and that led to some not great sexual experiences yeah um that ranged from bad to boring so I I feel the exact same way like when I was especially living back I grew up on a small island uh in uh on the Atlantic coast of Canada and there was like nobody there the gays that it was it was the kind of small area where all the gay people knew each other and all of them had slept with each other but like so my experience was very much like okay the the pool is this big and so my choices are even smaller yeah because out of like the five people on grinder one person might appear every six months who is at all interested in me you know physically and so it really became a oh you're interested what do I have to do oh my God to keep you remember that feeling like I I'm sure I ended up turning off so many guys because I was so desperate to you know keep them involved uh that I was just way too pushed I don't know if I was ever pushy but I was definitely clingy yeah um I'm still kind of I'm needy but like for instance um when I was in my early 20s it was just after I had finished Film School um I found out that a film degree doesn't provide a lot of employment activities employment opportunities so I had to move home live with my mom um and so you know middle of nowhere again because I was living in that in a metropolitan area for film school had to move home to the middle of nowhere and I on I think it was manhunt.com or dot net I think it was.com um I met someone who basically fit all of my oh my God he's so attractive qualities he was Twinkie but had a hairy chest he was really funny he and like I really enjoyed talking to him and we actually talked to each other every night for about six months um and then I was like okay I need to meet him and but the thing was he lived nine hours away so I gassed up my car and I did the nine hour drive which actually took 13 because I got turned around because of construction and ended up in the middle of a gigantic rainstorm um in the dark on a road with no street lights um and so you know I went I spent the weekend with him did the 13-hour Drive spent the weekend with him did the nine hour drive back because I did it in the daytime this time yeah um and then I met him one more time for his birthday bought him a camera and stuff because he was like I'd uh kind of playing with the idea of becoming a photographer I was making all these plans because you know we were basically online dating yeah um well we were very much online dating and so I was making all of these plans and it um blew up in my face because and I kind of got scared off of you know the sort of distance dating quite heavily but like that's just goes to show how desperate I was for any kind of attention like oh he's nine hours away that's fine I'll make the drive he needs to put in no effort because it was just that much desperation yeah and the fact that he kind of you know hit those kind of check marks of what I found attractive just made it even worse because it was like I gotta get this now or I'm never gonna this chance is never gonna come up uh I had an evolution my kind of uh develop my experiences with online dating I like I said I wasn't very popular I think it was because I didn't really know how to navigate things until later on uh in my twenties I started my mid-20s was when I really kind of figure what the rhythm of talking to guys was uh go figure it's changed now well also you came out quite late I can't I say late but it might be the average like I came out when I was 12. you came out and I realized I was gay when I was 17 like it was out to everyone by 19. yeah so I started the online dating thing when I was 13. I had a boyfriend in Ohio when I was 13. so I started that very early uh the thing that was in the days where uh you couldn't really share pictures easily online so there wasn't a whole lot of people telling me to go away because I was fat because I couldn't see me I never really even got to that point with anyone um I never remember you know you kind of came of age after that had happened I guess so yeah but like nobody nobody wanted to date me nobody in spite of the fact that I re-reach routinely routinely routinely routinely talking to guys and be like I can't like who are far away and like I can't believe you don't have a boyfriend like I'd snatch you up I'm like well you're welcome to if you want to come here because like local guys in my area and this is part of the reason not the reason why that but like I they just didn't have any interest in me like either when I was living in New Brunswick or when I was living in Ottawa yeah uh my dating experience in Ottawa because you did live in Ottawa which is a pretty major city in Canada yeah it's like it's smaller than DC population wise but it's also not nice I do not have nice things to say about the Ottawa dating scene um I don't know if something neither do I I don't know if something's changed since I was been there but the boys there boys were so cold oh God they were so cold there was an element of stuck up the kind of profile that I developed after a while was either they were closeted and didn't want people to know about it and so we're just very you know locked down or they wanted their forever guy and they wanted that forever guy to hit all of those social media check boxes like you know looks good perfect um because I lived in Ottawa for about a year and I definitely came up to that they wanted that Neil Patrick Harris marriage yes yes that kind of domestication yeah the perfect Instagram family yes and that's what I guess I feel like if you live in Ottawa it's kind of like living in Washington DC if you're living there you want to work in politics or intelligential too yeah yeah so they wanted that political marriage image kind of and that really doesn't didn't drive for me then it doesn't drive from me now I was told routinely that you know I was per the Pete Buda judge dig at the beginning of the show I was told routinely that you know like the kind of basic ass thing that people tell you when they have someone but you don't is oh you know just stop looking for it and then you'll find it it's like I've been looking for a boyfriend for uh 10 years at this point yeah um I realized uh I didn't really want that kind of boyfriendy thing uh the sort of commitment yeah I I liked sort of meeting people I like being friends I like sleeping with friends um but I never I realized that I didn't really want that commitment um I didn't really want that domestication um and I felt like I'd been betrayed by a lot of gay you know propaganda and thinking that that's what that's what my objective as a person was yeah um but the role of I mean we talking about it though we met online we did I talked about Manhunt I think it was Manhunt but yeah like we met on an app so it is possible to like for apps to be quite useful in not just like you know getting laid but in you know finding friends and stuff and but I feel like the dating apps were different even in 2011 2012 than they are now maybe the sort of culture of them like sketchier yeah or sketchy I don't know whether it's the apps that have changed or whether I have I think it's not that the apps themselves have changed but I think the expectation of people on them may have changed maybe because because there's so many now I feel like there's like a diaspora going on where people are all kind of migrating to their own little areas because we're entering a generation of uh people on Grindr who were have never not existed in a time of dating apps yeah the the day they were born there were dating apps yeah and not even dating websites dating apps oh God that's yeah yeah that's harrowing yeah whereas like even when it was like when I came of age and got a grinder like that was a new thing even if it I wasn't born into that that grinder was around for like two years before I was on it I remember getting grinder the first time I got it on my first iPhone and my friend and I she was um she was a girl and we were we drove around trying to find a close person and then someone messaged us and we looked at it and it was like 20 meters away and we freaked out and drove away because we were like it was the first time using an app that had any kind of geolocation to it and it was like really novel until it was like oh he can like see us yeah yeah okay so there was a big long period where I kind of swore off of online dating for a very long time uh you were kind of on it intermittently uh this isn't Halifax but I was just kind of like I had a few bad experiences I was just like you know um and so like when I started I I started back onto Grindr towards my last few months in Halifax uh very different Beast um I was and I think it was mostly this was the changes with me like I was more confident um I really didn't give much of a crap if guys blocked me or not yeah uh or got back to me I was treating it it was a fun thing I was chatting um but like you know this and this maybe this is partly dating in your 30s is having that kind of awareness that like I don't I don't need this I I I don't need this I'm here because I want to be not because I feel like I have to it's kind of like even though you know I basically went my entire 20s without having a boyfriend I had a I had a boyfriend is a strong word but someone who I saw in my early 20s we weren't really compatible in any way but it was kind of like well we're the only two fish in this Pond um very different personalities but that was 22 23 um and ever since then you know I've been single so I've been single for about a decade and so I've really kind of come to this I've lost that desperation now because I'm like I'm so used to being single now that it's like well I'm not gonna change this for you I don't know what would what I would like I think we're talking this on another one of these it's like what do you do when you actually get a boyfriend like how does that work how does dating work how does initiating that how does saying like hey are we boyfriends how do you initiate that conversation yeah like I'm talking to someone right now who is an absolute sweetheart and he's like incredibly nice and friendly and and we we really click on a lot of things there's a bit of an age difference but that seems to bother me more than it bothers him um guys yeah he is younger I can't do it but like other guys are like no it's totally okay it's like it's not about you it's about me it's about me but it's no it's me I'm baby like kind of wrapping my head around like how do we do this like if we if we start seeing each other if we start dating it's like how does that work like what labels are put on things well not just labels but like functionally yeah how do you like because like when it comes down to just like doing silly like intimate little romantic things like you know cuddling or like you know just hanging out staying in like that that's easy yeah but like when it comes to like okay we want to go on romantic date how does that function yeah like do you do the romantic and I think this is something that's actually happening with a lot of gay men and probably probably not just gay men but like something it's it's this weird thing that's happening where there's kind of two types of gay men now there's the gay men who have been basically serial monogamists you know since they came out they've had boyfriends and so they are very attuned to relationships and how relationships should work in the gay community with with between men and then there's people like me and you who have been the opposite serial um loneliest serious singles yeah singles and not even like serial just loneliest um who are like when the possibility of a relationship comes up it's like what the hell do I do here this doesn't make any sense um and and that's kind of where I'm at with it it's like okay he he is I I appreciate because he's very like forward with like he is interested in a relationship and I'm not disinterested in one but I don't know how to wrap my head around the idea of what here's a funny thing I noticed with me kind of going into this era and the apps have done this of online dating um and just talk about this and answering to talk about the apps is when it comes to people that I want to have a close sort of like friendship with I don't want to just go over to each other's houses and like watch movies and play video games and do body stuff uh body stuff um like that's fine but at the same time if I want to Foster these relationships with people relations with people I would like to you know go out and do activities I want to go and do things um you know go to bars how do you go to I don't know how to go to bars but I'll figure I want to figure it out like the other night I was invited to a strip club by a stripper and I didn't I I couldn't I couldn't wrap my head around the whole the process of leaving the apartment to drive to the strip club and going in I am that sheltered at this point yeah yeah and so like I was kind of intimidated by okay it's a gay strip club I'm going to be surrounded by gay men I have I went to a gay bar once right yeah dating so like with people that I want an intimate sort of relationship with relationship with I would like to kind of go out and do things but I realized that I when people are like hey come over I'm like I I don't want to it's like we can do stuff in the car it's like I oh God I am too old I like I'm sorry I I kind of said that to someone I'm too old for that I'm sorry honestly I I have been I am not willing to go fellatiate you in your Boiler Room where there is no flat surface and just raw concrete on the floor I am not willing to do that my knees can't take that at this age well really though I've had some knee injury I know and so like I just I I just I I don't want to be crammed I don't want to kind of have to stuff myself in somewhere I just don't want to do car stuff I don't want to do uncomfortable stuff since moving here I have been Pro and living on my own in a city and everything I have been proposed by pretty attractive guys to come pick them up and fool around in the car and I'm like I have an apartment with a bed I I am so turned off by uncomfortable hookup spaces yeah like I when I I I've um there was a fellow who uh hello area and area now that I was talking to on grinder we just went out like at like 3 A.M and walked around town that's all we did we walked around town we talked it was great um and like here no and uh the home the area where I'm living now yeah uh and we just chatted um and that hasn't happened very often because he does Nurse stuff and so he has a really weird schedule but like thought was nice not the whole there wasn't any pressure to find a spot to although outdoor stuff is kind of fun but like there wasn't there wasn't any pressure to go to a car and start doing stuff in a car um so like yeah I'm more towards that I'm like I don't want to do with other stuff um you can do anything on a bed even if you need rubber sheets you can still do it on a bed I like the shape them um but yeah that's that's I mean that is something like the way that it's expected that you're going to engage in sexual activities on these hookup apps now it see that seems to be different the instantaneousness of it and that's the thing that is the difference that I'm seeing from like when I was a teenager again like you know long long ago um to now is that because there was always expected to be a distance it was you know we're probably going to talk to each other for several months before even the idea of meeting each other is entertained and so you got to know each other likely before you even saw pictures of each other and so there was the opportunity to get to know someone before you saw them and so you know per even if it was like oh I am very much not physically attracted to you yeah but we're kind of really good friends so there was the opportunity I'm still friends with people that I eat aided in the early 2000s uh I still talk to them most of them live in the United States they're great guys um there's no no one that I E dated in the 2000s is someone that I have a bad yeah connection I'm still talking to someone that I've been talking online with we talked on Snapchat for like five years and we're still chatting like one of the guys I E dated in the 2000s was ended up coming up and being my prom date so like there was you know like I have good relationships with these guys but now the the pressure to be instantaneous it is so hard to develop a connection with someone yeah um and I actually did want to talk about something in the last section but we didn't have time uh uh or between this one we we have all the time in the world we have these self-imposed limits of how much time we have but um I noticed what was I gonna say well yeah we talked about the idea of like you used to meet up in gay bars and that yeah yeah and I I I've always wanted to talk to one of these alleged aged gays um Elder guys um sounds nicer than agent gays uh trying to get James into playing Elden ring so uh I would if you'd stop I had Fair uh um so I have this idea of like the way it was in the old times of being like when you're at a bar like I feel like online you're more likely to not talk to someone or even say something mean to someone on an online space where you can even block them the things that have been said yeah so like you know like when you're at a bar you can and someone says like hey how are you you can't really just well you can but it's it's it's socially rude you can't really really just turn around and ignore them yeah um you you start up a conversation with them you kind of chat with them because if you are rude to someone in public that's a mark on you other people see that other people notice that and I think that's how like you got gay friend groups maybe that didn't all look like the same so like maybe if because now you see these gay friend groups on Instagram and it's like wait which one is Paul because they all look like Paul and like maybe and like the way I kind of I don't know the way I kind of look at it is like you know like you would be willing to give that you know if you're if your ideal is like a nine or a ten you'd be willing to give that six a try if if he's got a good personality as they say personality makes up for a lot in a way that you wouldn't on online dating because it's like you you I don't like the way you look block yeah um or as many people on Grindr have just replied to me fat just fat like that that that's for like a long time what I want to know is whether that is me with rose tinted glasses and that or was that actually that's why I want to like have a a you know an elder gay an older gay person on here who you know grew up with the gay Birds who could maybe say like no it's it's not nearly as you know because I have heard or from some people that it was better than it is now and that we really lost something by the presence of online dating the community I'm not really sure I I wouldn't be willing to hear that until I hear specific instances from real life people like first-hand accounts um so if you're watching if you're you know an elder gay um who lives in the GTA and don't mind being called an elder gay um you know shoot me a message on Twitter Twitter if Twitter still exists at this point um or Instagram or wherever or YouTube or comment below maybe we can you know set something up where we can actually talk to someone we want to do interviews on this show eventually because um but we are right now not talking about the dating community that was we were talking about the community that is and that is developing I think we'll we'll take a break and we'll jump into that the next uh we'll jump into the next section so we'll take a quick break and we will be right back with more okay so um it's it's been particularly interesting with me since the the YouTube channel has taken off yeah uh not a first but uh especially since I've moved here where there is a much bigger gay scene than there was where there's a lot of people who know who I am which I would like living on the East Coast nobody knew who I was um and so you know I just assumed well most a lot of people don't watch my channel but now living in a place where there are a lot of gay people um I've they come across me and they message me they say very nice things the pharmacist who gave you your third covet booster recognized you fourth covered booster but yes um and um so like kind of gauging because sometimes I get sometimes people message me and they are very starfuckery which I do not qualify myself as a star in ad by any story I kind of like will be on the Discord and say like I'm an influencer and always have like the Sparkles beside it because like I don't I just don't think it's because I have the technical qualifications of being an influencer because I have a thousand followers on Twitter um and that's kind of like industry networking HR PR kind of stuff yeah but like I don't really qualify myself as someone who is capable of influencing anyone oh neither do I like I I I like I do through the proxy of you because like you know our videos have reached people oh I know but even like you know the killing stalking video has two million views some of the videos have close to a million views most of the videos go to at least like a quarter of a million views it's you know but like I don't consider myself like big time anything um but yeah back to where I was so like I get messages from these people who know who I am and sometimes they're they're always very nice about it they're always very laudatory very friendly um but sometimes they're very forward and it comes off as very starfuckery yeah um and I and so it's kind of like this weird thing now where I'm like okay you're being really friendly to me are you being friendly to me because you like me or are you being friendly to me because you feel like it's a notch kind of thing like the guys who go around to sleep with all the drag queens oh yeah yeah uh they'll sleep with all the drag queens and I like everyone they like have like a tiered list and like a whole thing really like like sort into like the ABC no no no no no just like who's I don't know how it works oh I'd love to see that but later and so a lot of like drag queens watch out for that because there are people who are just like I just want to have sex with you because you are you know you are a Katya you are um Aquaria and you know that's kind of dehumanizing a bit unless you're just horny and you want to get it yeah then you get it um but like I kind of I'm like I certainly you want to hang out it's certainly like a weird Power Trip I I don't know yeah like when I put out the casting calls for Telos for instance um there were people who were like oh my God I know what Telos is I watch your YouTube channel and offering sex in exchange for a casting session and I'm like we're auditioning everybody um honestly sex is less likely to get you cast because um morals and ethics well yeah like honestly I'd be willing to discount anyone who would kind of include a offer of sexual facilitation yeah and I mean these are people who they'll they'll message me on like Twitter or Instagram yeah after sending in an application I'm like your application let's grow that's crazy it is and it's it's so it's it's this weird it's this weird area I'm in like the guy I am talking to has never watched a video on the channel he thinks it's really cool he thinks it's amazing that you know I have you know almost 300 000 subscribers and everything he thinks that's awesome he's ever watched one yeah and I'm like so he's like me this one never watches the videos I could change everything I could say anything in these videos and well like with you while you're recording them so not always right I make a lot of videos when you're not here um so what is it like then kind of with on the dating apps and stuff from the sort of asexual well first of all when I was younger because with me it's a very easy just white gay man dating so when I was younger I neither knew that I was non-binary or asexual although it's one of those things like looking back I can absolutely see how I was both of those things and just had no idea how to express that or didn't have the language to sort of describe that um I was always really touch and go about sex which is part of the reason why I kind of I probably got a reputation as a flake um because I would sometimes flake out of meetings because I was like we planned this but I that the hour is not and I just have no interest yeah um if if you weren't 100 in the mood yeah for it it was a no-go yeah and since then I kind of really have expanded and explored kind of the way that I look at sex and it is very much in a sort of proxy contact context like I want to experience it uh I want to explore it but the only way to explore it is to really experience it and experiencing it isn't what I'm after um it's the you know more psychological expert the idea yeah and you can't and I would love to do that by having you know a threesome with people where I could just be on the side and sort of you know observing but like that's not typically normal I need to get you a VR headset the other porn exists so and that's kind of why I kind of lean much more towards pornography and especially illustration because I I find that these people explore those ideas in more kind of explicit ways rather than kind of having to sort of Express to a perfect stranger the ways that you kind of fetishize certain things that's something else sort of very sorry to interrupt uh another thing I want to throw out there if you're in the GTA and you are an artist who does NSFW art we'd love to have you on to talk about that oh yeah yeah uh sorry about that continue yeah and I don't mean like franchise personalities or bodies or things but like sort of ideas of Mass fetishized Ideas of masculinity it's very cerebral and it takes a lot for me to be comfortable expressing that with someone who I am in this kind of porch maybe I don't know what the word um regardless uh I I am nervous about kind of approaching those things yeah um which is understandable yeah and which leads me to now when I do know how to kind of advocate for myself in indirect ways uh for both being non-binary and the things for the amount of guys on grinder that will just default to calling you dude or bro or pan and it's like I'm non-binary in my profile um and the ways that guys are just obsessed with labels up obsessed with labels like I have it in my profile that I'm a side because it's it's true I don't typically like penetration yeah anal penetration specifically um but you know if I do engage in sexual activities it you know there are other things to be done and so guys kind of take this as like never ever in a million years would I ever stick anything in my butt um and they have questions about that they qualify me on that Soul principle at like incredibly um which which I'm bothered by because it's like I I put that there because like I don't want to set expectations but expectation seems to be the language of modern gay dating absolutely like I think now there's no going into a dating idea or even a hookup idea any kind of any kind of gay connecting um that doesn't already have an expectation on it there there is no just like let's get together walk around a mall and you know or go to dinner or whatever and if things are vibing let's go home and see what happens if things are vibing vibing um the we-vi bond um but it's it's very much like a participle through love honey Link in the description discount code too uh I looked on the site they actually got some fun stuff they've got a lot of stuff on there uh check it out this is the person this is this personal recommendation um but yeah it's like you know there's no expectation of maybe getting to know someone even a little bit even just for like an hour or two and then see what happens it's like okay here's the Box this is what I want um do your sexual proclivities fit in this box no never mind and and there's no openness very refreshing when you do get someone that isn't like that and absolutely and in recent time I actually have like there's a guy in the area where I am he's like an hour and a half away so it's uncommon that we have gotten to meet up but like hour halfway is the area I get told no because of a 20-minute drive because like um and we've met up a few times uh we the way when we started talking it was very much like I was kind of like I'm not interested in anything like we were just chatting and it was fun because it was we were being flirty and stuff yeah and like after a while it kind of got to the point where like okay we need to meet up and it was like but it was after a period of time where you had gotten yeah exactly and that's that's something that like even even back in the the olden days with the small town and stuff there were a couple of guys who I would talk to and it would be in a very prolonged way because like they would only be available at like two in the morning they couldn't drive I couldn't drive between 12 and 6 because that was a law and everything and so it just couldn't happen but we still talked yeah and then when I got my ability to drive between 12 and six it was like well let's see and then you know we saw and you know I don't talk to them anymore so you know what happened but but yeah you know being able to get to know someone even even like I said even as much as like walking around a mall or you know getting coffee or something just I feel like and maybe this is the old man in me but going from zero to 60 from closing grinder and then going whoop into someone's bed is like I'm noticing that that kind of like meet up like go to the mall because remember I was here and I saw a friend of mine that I've been talking to for a little bit we went to the mall for like a whole day and yeah we just talked it walked around talked bought some stuff um and that was nice I'm noticing that happens a lot with Kai's my age in a few years older of anyone who is more than a few years older is instant like we need to meet and do sexual things um like many years older than you yeah and anyone not anyone who's like 10 more than 10 years older than me is like we need to meet okay yeah and anyone who's younger than me is like Senpai notice me so um and like they're pushy about it they're very pushy about it I've had since since I've come back to Grindr I've had some really not uncomfortable but just like I it felt like I had to break up with these people because like oh yeah even though you might have never met we one of them I met once for like a few minutes because I was I was tired yeah another one like I just had to throw in the towel because I'm like I have a really busy schedule when I'm here in Toronto I'm sorry I can't really take any time to step away but in in part because like I value my own kind of downtime because I need a lot of downtime yeah and we do a lot of work when I'm here yeah so I like I like it would be nice and like they act like I was misleading them even though I was like if I'm always say if I have time if I have time if I have time um but it just got to a point where I was like I don't know if I'm ever gonna have time when these guys are putting a lot of emotional investment in me for some reason yeah and it's like every time they saw that I was here on Grindr they'd be like oh so you're good to hang out now I'm like uh well yeah because I think the expectation is if you've got the app open you have downtown yeah and I think that that's a really toxic expectation like I think when you're going on to these data apps with expectations you're gonna get let down um but the difference unless you're like gorgeous and you're aiming for gorgeous and find other gorgeous I guess so but even then like um because they seem to do fine you know even gorgeous guys get flaked out on I've heard it from like super attractive people have a hard time getting laid because everyone's intimidated by them yeah I avoid them because like like I I and that's sort of like that pushiness that sort of like if I own your time I've been really effective on it's happened to me a couple of times where I might be you know doing something I might be shooting a video about to shoot a video or something Grinders just open on my phone from earlier in the day or whatever yeah and someone will message me and I'll be like Oh I'm actually really busy right now but you know maybe we can chat later blocked yeah there's no room yeah it's like anything except the exact you you do talk to someone a little bit kind of feel them out how to have some witty conversation um maybe it's a little bit one-sided maybe it's kind of fine but like after that it's like some people expect that that means you're going to be like good friends or that you're going to go past presence is quite of or go past go further than that like there's that expectation that like oh we hit it off Ergo I can start planning for this person to be in my life and it's like please settle back a little bit we literally just met yeah um and like I I kind of I'm in comfortable with that level of intensity just like yeah um especially if you have not met in person in a meaningful way especially yeah um because I I do tend to go a little bit boy crazy sometimes but like I I manage it I I recognize that that's something about me and that nobody owes me anything for how I feel right um and it's that sense that people that these guys that I mentioned it seems like they act like I owe them something and I I don't know what to do with that yeah and that's part of the reason why I just have not been opening up Grindr yeah but you know what doesn't come at you with any expectations the We Vibe I knew it laughs uh seriously though seriously but you've been talking telling me recently before we signed off about some other newer kinds of dating apps that aren't grinder or scruff well I mean the only other dating app that I've been using is hinge hinge and you told me about Tinder you said that Tinder is a lot more Tinder wasn't bad but Tinder did have a lot of like instantaneous expectations when you were on it you told me that there were more relatively more people who were looking for like you know friendship and relationships yeah but there were just as many people kind of okay on the grinder headset headset mindset mindset uh mindset headspace um but yeah I've been using hinge which is an app that's not dislike uh Tinder it's a it's it's sort of a matching app uh you know you go on you create your profile you can go into pretty good detail like you can say like if you drink if you do um drugs or anything like that like if you're open to stuff like that um like you can go in like like do you want kids do you not want kids do you want a relationship do you just want friends like you can go into really specific detail in there and then you know if you like someone you scroll through and you like their profile and if they like they they see that you have liked them they can look at your profile and if they like you then they can match you can talk to each other if not so yeah it's very very tender but it's the atmosphere you've been telling me about of that app is very geared away from instant hookups yeah like I I have talked to quite a few people on there now um I haven't come across any Duds on there and like they they're all nice which whether it's relationship stuff or just friend stuff they're nice uh and I think you know maybe this is just I've been lucky maybe it's different experience for other people but for me it's been really positive because I'm kind of seeing okay there are guys out there who are open to getting to know someone who are open to being friends who who are open to more than just dick and in a surprising amount of cases they are shockingly good luck for me that's a big change of pace but this is something that I I should have seen coming because like the disenfringement of date of Fast dating like online dating has been growing for quite some time it's like fast food I should have expected that there would be like a large section of people who are just kind of sick of it yeah they want to kind of move on Pat they don't really want the grinder thing because they don't like that kind of culture uh but at the same time something but at the same time we live in a culture that has systematically disenfranchised personal meetings we live in a society yeah so we especially after covet gay bars up and shutting down a lot of them are back now I think covet may have actually influenced a lot of people to be more open to just talking for a bit yeah yeah and so I don't think it should be surprising that we do have uh maybe a growing number of dating apps that are geared away from hookups and even away from dating and more towards the idea of um you know more kind of sustainable friendships yeah because like for a hint this is obviously it's not a this isn't an ad for hinge this is an ad for the We Vibe Bond we've been saying indeed the word dating so long I hope the algorithm picked it up and gives us an ad for Christian Mingle I love when we get those um but the the thing with hinge that I is that even in your profile there are things that it's not just asking for pictures it wants your opinion on things it says like um they're like text prompts that are like talk about um the craziest thing that's ever happened to you on vacation stuff like that so people can kind of get an idea of your personality instead of just pictures and so I've found that to be very heartening yeah because I feel like okay these people exist where maybe I can get a gay friend group together and we can you know have a giant Katan tape because like we were talking about it and on we were on our way to get some stuff for the video shoot that's coming up yeah and we're going to do in about five minutes I was I was complaining and kind of sort of whining about like all I really want from all of this is kind of like a friend group with a gay friend group an exclusively queer friend group with artistic sensibilities yeah um I don't even care if they're artistic I just want them to do I I'm learning I need people like that in my life because my friends in the area right now are not artistically minded and it's really starting to I keep telling you to move I know it's happening soon I keep telling you it's happening um because I really like about just like talking with you I'll be like Luca likes this thing yeah because I talk about him like he's a real person Luke is the main character of my book series and I'm publishing by the way um because he just whispered that Luca is the main character of Nick's book series that he's publishing called Avalon night the first book is called gentlemen's club there's a link in the description for you to buy it maybe if not just go to NT hergot.com and you can buy it there or it's also available at all major book retailers and there's a special edition cover on Amazon everywhere else has a different have it pre-ordered for almost almost any Bookshop around the world not pre-ordered but you can yeah yeah because we're out of pre-order it was like right a year and a half soon there'll be pre-orders for the sequel two yeah um but yeah so that's the end of this video ending it on a hopeful note that you know maybe dating apps will solve the problems created by dating apps maybe I won't be single forever maybe I'll have a cute boyfriend imagine that uh but yeah so thank you guys so much for watching I hope you've enjoyed this I hope you like these types of videos we really like doing them these kind of podcasty type videos they're funny um if you like them let us know in the comments let us know some topics you'd like to hear us talk about that you know the the good gays don't like talking about um and once again the We Vibe bond for all the guys out there it's actually great and even straight guys like I didn't say hey guys all the guys out there like and you know anyone who's attracted to guys buy your guy this put it on his wiener um anyone with a penis really yeah yeah anyone with a penis it's it's surprisingly good you can control it with your phone your phone can't give the code to someone else yeah that's what I'm interested in make Easter extra exciting with that Easter family dinner um thank you so much for watching and our next video is a big one with a lot of production so please watch that when it comes out because it's a lot all right I hope you all have a wonderful week and I'll see you again this weekend [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music]

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